The MHP Brokers Tips and Tricks Podcast Interview with 3 Female Leaders in the Manufactured Home Park Industry in Recognition of International Women’s Day

In this episode of The MHP Broker’s Tips and Tricks podcast, Maxwell Baker, president of The Mobile Home Park Broker, interviewed his wife, Kathryn Baker, and two more female business leaders. These were industry business owners Justine Natalie and Maria Horton.

As with every Tips and Tricks podcast episode, this one is brought to you by The MHP Broker’s proprietary Community Price Maximizer. Use this four-step system to get the highest price possible for your mobile home park or RV community when you sell it through The MHP Broker. Guaranteed. Call Max for details.

Here Are the Show Highlights:

• Kathryn introduced herself as the co-owner and chief operating officer (COO) of The Mobile Home Park Broker. Her focus is on customer service excellence, optimizing workflow and driving growth. (Kathryn, 1:26)
• Justine Natalie introduced herself as the co-founder and co-owner of a company called Dynamic MH Solutions. THat’s a hybrid third-party park management operation she started with business partner Mike Scheffler in 2021.They started by offering sales and financing services, and then got into property operations. Their focus is in teaching and training community management. (Justine, 3:00)
• Maria Horton introduced herself as someone who has been in the business for about 23 years, mostly on the human side of the business: property management, community relations, and such. She said she loved watching her young residents grow up, get scholarships, and take on life. She also loves going to industry conferences and networking. (Maria, 4:10)
• Maria said she thinks the biggest challenge is trying to change the image and perception of her industry and the very concept of what a mobile home is. It’s also difficult to go up against the obstacles that local communities place on manufactured home parks to regulate them and seemingly control them out of existence. (Maria, 5:55)
• Max observed how intimidating an industry conference might be to some. For instance, the difficulty of someone just starting out trying to strike up a conversation with someone who owns 100 parks. (Max, 6:48)
• Maria noted that she has the social ability to approach anyone at a conference, and that she goes out of her way to meet someone who seems intimidated or on the outskirts of the social action, and introduce them to others. She’s also glad to see how many women there are at these shows now, compared to years before. Women are finally becoming a bigger part of the career path. (Maria, 7:07)
• Max then asked his guests to address the various business challenges they’ve had to take on, being women in the business. (Max, 8:00)
• Justine said that there are so many details and decisions she has to stay on top of, it’s easy to get imposter syndrome and wonder how she possibly has the talent and ability to thrive or survive in such an environment. She said that she thinks women might overthink this more than men, who might have a greater tendency to just “jump right in” with greater confidence and less insight. This, she thinks, is a daily challenge and one she’s always trying to overcome as a female business owner. (Justine, 8:23)
• Max said that he thinks women tend to be better business operators than men. The men prefer “flying by the seat of their plants” while women plan and strategize before taking action. (Max, 9:49)
• Justine and her husband have observed that the careful pre-planning is something she does in her business life, but not at all in her private life where she’s more spur of the moment. (Justine, 10:09)
• Maria thinks that might be because more people are affected by decisions she makes in the business life. At home, she can blunder her way through decisions because they affect fewer people. (Maria, 10:40)
• One of Maria’s biggest challenges is staying abreast of all of the organizations and associations she takes an active part in. She always wants to feel that she’s making a positive impact in her industry, but it’s easy to get sucked in and get overinvolved. Sometimes she just doesn’t know when or how to say no. (Maria, 11:29)
• Kathryn stated that she also sometimes experiences the impostor syndrome like Justine. She’s eventually come to realize that she doesn’t always have to have all of the answers, that she can rely on others on the topnotch team they’ve put together through the years. (Kathryn, 13:39)
• Justine has made a point of hiring great people who are good at what they do so she can let them make key decisions when they should. But it took her awhile to realize that she could trust others to help her run the business. (Justine, 14:21)
• Kathryn said that she learned how to accept the freedom to fail from a video biography of Spanx founder Sarah Blakely. She said that around the kitchen table as she was growing up her dad would ask her all the time, “Sarah, what did you fail at today?” The idea was to lose the fear of failing and be able to take decisions and get right back up on your feet if you failed the first time. Kathryn feels she is much more confident that way, now. (Kathryn, 15:12)
• Regarding advice she’d give for women who are trying to purchase a manufactured home community, Justine said that her first tip would be to join Women Advancing Manufactured Housing (WAMH). In that way, women business owners would join a network of seasoned professionals who could offer tips and suggestions and advice. That’s the purpose of WAMH, an organization with which Justine has been closely involved. (Justine, 16:49)
• Her second piece of advice is that the female entrepreneur should learn how to advocate for themselves and not to sit quietly by. The idea here is to control their own destinies. (Justine, 17:30)
• Justine said that she thinks there’s still a little of a glass ceiling working against female entrepreneurs, but it’s much more subtle than it used to be. She said that she can buy a community today, but if she goes to see a lender with a male partner, the lender’s questions and comments often get directed to her partner a lot more than to herself. You have to put yourself out there when that happens, and make sure you’re heard. She says she’s also lucky in having a male business partner who’ll turn the conversation back to her when he feels she’s being ignored or minimized as a woman and an expert. (Justine, 18:45)
• Maria doesn’t think there’s much of a glass ceiling these days in manufactured home communities. She said that female park management is becoming more common and there are fewer barriers than ever. (Maria, 19:57)
• Max credits Kathryn with being key to building their own company to where they’ve been able to take it. Without his wife’s involvement, he felt that he would be a solo broker with maybe one employee, but she’s been able to help them grow it far beyond that point with her organizational and management skills.(Max, 23:56)
• Max specifically credits Kathryn with being much better at managing people than he is. (Max, 24:45)
• To Max’s question regarding the most important lessons learned while in the manufactured housing industry, Maria responded that patience is required. That’s necessary because change is constant, and there’s always something new to learn. (Maria, 25:53)
• Justine observed that the industry is constantly evolving to stay ahead of changing economics or cultural changes. For example, when the economy is on a downswing, park operators will offer more in the way of home rentals rather than sales. It’s critical to be able to evolve with the industry because that’s how to stay profitably in business and survive the changes. (Justine, 26:44)
• Maria thinks one advantage women might have is their sense of flexibility. They really can change with the times and adapt to changing conditions. (Maria, 28:57)
• Kathryn is pleasantly surprised at how gorgeous today’s manufactured homes are. It’s not like the stereotype at all. (Kathryn, 29:27)
• On the subject of business role models for women, Maria said that Leslie Gooch and Paula Reeves are among the industry insiders who made the greatest impression on her, but that there were many others as well. These included bankers, association insiders, and too many others to mention. She also name-dropped Justine in this category. (Maria, 30:33)
• Justine mentioned Maria as one of her mentors through her activism in the associations and her ability as a “connector,” someone who can bring people together and inspire networking. She’s also done a lot to provide home ownership lending for community residents. Justine is also impressed with the leadership of WAMH and how they’ve encouraged women in the business. (Justine, 31:48)
• Justine is also impressed with Dr. Vrnka Boykin as a role model for women in business leadership. She addresses such topics as work-life balance for women. (Justine, 33:15)
• Kathryn takes inspiration from Brene Brown, a speaker and influencer from outside of the industry. Brown speaks in a communication style. Kathryn also sees Sara Blakely, the Spanx founder, as a role model.
• Max’s final question was on trends or developments that might shape the future of the industry for women. Justine mentioned the increased number of women buying and operating communities. She thinks that, as this happens, women will create more of a focus on creating clean, safe, affordable housing rather than just maximizing the bottom line. (Justine, 35:03)
• Maria felt that need to do more in the way of getting the word out on the high quality of the manufactured homes available today. Home ownership is the American Dream. And it really is readily available through manufactured homes. (Maria, 36:44)
• WAMH is an organization run by women, but not exclusively for women. Men are members, too. Today the organization has about 400 members. (Justine, (Justine, 40:27)
• WAMH has had a variety of educational classes for members on subjects as diverse as trends in technology and automation to pet screening. The goal is to educate park owners on the latest trends and developments in the industry. (Maria, 41:35)
• The Mobile Home Park Broker sees plenty of opportunity for men and women in the industry. Please call Max Baker at The MHP Broker, (678) 932-0200 and we’ll help you find a qualified buyer and an optimal sale price.You can also drop us a line at info@themhpbroker.com.

Power Quotes in This Episode:

“…you;re working with people’s livelihoods, right? I mean, if you make a mistake for the business, you’ve got employees and clients and all sorts of people that you have to answer to. So yeah, being able to put a plan in place is very important.” (Justine, 11:07)

“I think there really isn’t a glass ceiling any longer for women in this industry if they are strong business women that are ready to jump in and be assertive and get to know everyone.” (Maria, 19:57)

“I think (manufactured housing) isa fantastic solution for affordable housing, and it surprises me that it doesn’t get more attention…I have learned that the homes are absolutely gorgeous.” (Kathryn, 29:27)

“I think women will continue to have the thought process of advancing the industry forward, making sure it’s clean, safe, affordable housing for families, and things like that.” (Justine, 35:03)

00:00

Hello and welcome to the Mobile Home Park Brokers Tips and Tricks. This is the podcast where we talk about mobile home park investing, because that’s what we’ve been involved in for the last decade. Let’s dive into today’s episode. Here is your host, Maxwell Baker.

00:22 Maxwell Baker

Hey, y’all welcome to another beautiful episode of the mobile home park brokers Tips and Tricks Podcast. As always, this episode is brought to you by the you got it. Community Price Maximizer. It is our proprietary system that will guarantee you a higher price when you exclusively list with us. Give us a call, (678) 932-0200, and today, y’all, I am very excited to have my wife, Kathryn here. Who is this? COQ is what we like to call her the Chief Operating Queen of Mobile Home Park Brokers Operations. We’ve also got Justine Natalie and Maria Horton joining us today for International Women’s Day. We decided to do a podcast episode to celebrate that and kind of get into some pointers on any and all women that are coming into the industry or have been in the industry, like this episode’s for y’all so Kathryn, take it away. Thanks for putting this together for us!

01:26 Kathryn Baker

Well, hello and it’s great to see you both, happy to be here today on International Women’s Day. We are incredibly honored to be celebrating with the two of you who have made many contributions to our field here and you’re breaking barriers and redefining what is possible, I feel like every day, so very excited for that and for those of you who do not know me, I am Kathryn Baker, as Max said, I’m the co-owner and Chief Operations Officer (COO) for The MHP Broker and my focus is on optimizing our work flows, enhancing customer service and driving growth.

02:05 Maxwell Baker

In the last episode, Maria and Justine, we talked a little bit about WAMH (Women Advancing in Manufactured Housing) and what y’all have been doing to help further the growth and progress of women in manufactured housing. Today, we’re going to go a little bit over the nitty gritty, I should say, of what you all are seeing, how you’ve navigated being a woman in manufactured housing. I mean, manufactured housing is predominantly a male dominated industry, and I think it’s good to have women come on and strut their stuff, I guess you could say and this is a man’s world, but I’ve been able to kill it and navigate it and do really well with it. Love to hear some of the things that both of y’all have overcome, including you.

02:52 Kathryn Baker 

Well, first, let’s hear, they are;

02:55 Maxwell Baker

Okay. Sorry, yes. Thank you for that. Let’s hear a little spiel on both y’all.

03:00 Justine Natalie

So, my name is Justine Natalie. I am a co-founder, co-owner of a company called dynamic MH solutions. I’ve been in the industry since about 2016 but started this business with my business partner Mike Scheffler back in 2021 we’re actually kind of evolving more into a hybrid third party management operation. So, we started with managing sales and finance and kind of helping people through chattel loans and things of that nature but, we have started to work with, you know, operators, maybe investors, who are just getting their one, you know, their first park up and running, and helping them navigate. So, we call it hybrid, because, you know, we really do more of a teach and train type of model of community management, where we help grow them out as they’re buying communities, grow out their team and help them build out an internal team as they want to. So that’s what we’ve been doing this past year, I think, since we’ve been on with you guys but, I’m excited to be here, and I just really appreciate you guys doing something for International Women’s Day and including us in it. So, thank you!

04:08 Kathryn Baker

Good and Maria. What about you?

04:10 Maria Horton

Where do I begin? Let’s see. I’ve been in the business for about 23 years now, mostly in the community operations, property management, third party property management, and it’s been such an exciting, rewarding career, because to really make a difference in people’s lives when you see them enter your community and buy houses and raise their children and you’ve been around as long as I have, and they all are just, you see them go through college and get scholarships and, I mean, you know, it’s such a wonderful feeling to be part of the whole lifestyle and you know, to make a difference. I started off not knowing anything about this industry. So, it’s really; it’s been such a rewarding job for me. I also learned how to work my way into conferences, and, of course, once my bosses saw me in action at conferences, and saw how I operate and know everyone in the room. Perhaps in the first hour (laughs) everyone’s coming up and saying hello and giving hugs, and I’m exchanging hugs with everyone and it’s such a welcoming industry. You know, no matter what you know, what we do, we all make a difference. So, you know, putting it all together, whether it’s the, you know, suppliers, or it’s the manufacturers or the community operators. It’s fascinating how much we can all come together and try to make a difference, make everything better.

05:55

Trying to change our image is really; has really been a big challenge as well or going from the, you know, the old mobile homes labels, so to speak, to now a manufactured home, and all the various names that they call houses now. It’s fascinating to see the new houses that we are supplying to this industry and just the way we’re operating communities as well. It’s a little tough. It’s a struggle. It’s a struggle at times because of the cities and the laws and everything throughout the country. You know, everyone’s got their set of rules and regulations and laws that we have to follow as community operators, but it just kind of enhances the challenge for all of us to do a great job and I love what I do, so I’m enjoying it!

06:48 Maxwell Baker

Yeah, and that having that skill set Maria is very unique. Sometimes it might be a little intimidating just to go walk up to somebody you don’t know, especially if they own, like, you know, 100 parks, and you’re just starting out. So, I totally understand that dynamic of, you know…

07:07 Maria Horton

I have to tell you, Max that I used to go to conferences several years ago. God, I could spot someone who had; who was new and just kind of very sheepishly walking into the big room and kind of looking around and being very, very timid about what she was going to approach, because it was always a she there weren’t very many women out there and so now, thank god things have changed a great deal and but I; also, I would go up to them and make them and take them around…

07:38 Maxwell Baker

I love that!

07:39 Maria Horton

…and introduce them to everyone. You know, I’m blessed with the talent to be able to do that

07:45 Maxwell Baker

I love that!

07:46 Maria Horton

and I thank God that I’ve been able to do that.

07:47 Justine Natalie

I can attest to that because she; she definitely grabbed me and introduced, you know, introduces me to people all the time when we’re at shows, and I love it. Just expands my network. So, Maria does a great job with that.

07:58 Maxwell Baker

That’s great. I love hearing that.

07:58 Maria Horton

Thank you!

08:00 Maxwell Baker

Let’s talk about some business challenges that y’all have faced being women, and how did you overcome them? If you could just give me one deal story of what y’all did, what was a challenge and how y’all individualistically overcame them.

08:15 Kathryn Baker

It doesn’t have to be as a woman, but just what is a challenge you faced in your business, and how did you overcome it?

08:23 Justine Natalie

That’s a great question. So, you know, I think when you are starting your own company, there’s so many different things, right? I’m sure you guys know you have your own company, there’s just so many different things to think about and to try and remember. One of my biggest challenges is trying to be present in what I know we can do right? It’s really easy to get, like, imposter syndrome and to be like, am I sure that we’re doing this right? Are we sure we’re going about this the right way? You know? But then when you really sit down and you start to, like, put a plan together and everything, you’re like, oh, yeah, no, I got this. Like, we can do this. You know, I’ve got support around me. I’ve got people around me. So, I think just remembering, and I think being female, honestly, we might feel that more than our male counterparts, such as, based in my experience, a lot of times they’re willing just, they just, like, jump in. They like, don’t really think twice about it. They’re like, ah, never done that before. That’s fine. We can do it. No big deal. You know, whereas me, I have to really, like, kind of get over that hump and say, okay, as long as we can put a plan in place and we know what we’re what we’re getting into and what we’re going to do, then yes, we absolutely can do this. So, I think trying to get over that hesitation as a woman and a woman in business is always a challenge that that I find myself working through on a daily basis.

09:49 Maxwell Baker

I always tell Kathryn that women are better operators than men, because we’re like, we’re just, we’re, you know, fly by the seat of our pants, and y’all like, you just said, Justine, like, y’all like to plan and know, like, what we’re getting into, and that’s so much better way to operate a business (laughs) and just kind of jumping in and trying to figure it out (laughs).

10:09 Justine Natalie

You know, what’s funny about it is that’s not really my personality in life. So, in life, like, yes, my husband, he’ll be like, no, she flies by the seat of her pants all the time. Like, I just, I just dive in. I’m like, sure we can do that but, in business, for whatever reason I like, which I think is good, but I have more of an ability to stop and be like, no, we have to really think through, what are all the different things that need to happen? but it is definitely different than my like, outside personality (laughs) anywhere else, I’m like, sure we can figure it out. No problem.

10:40 Maxwell Baker

Love it!

10:40 Maria Horton

Don’t you think that has to do, though, with having a partner and having the responsibility of other people as well, that your decision-making others that you were; you are; you know, you are so tied into, I mean, you know, at home, it’s, you know, you can always blame your husband for something, say something. Oh, well, you know, let’s just do it this way, or whatever. You know, it’s a different ball game.

11:07 Justine Natalie

It is, and you’re and you’re working with people’s livelihoods, right? I mean, if you make a mistake for the business, you’ve got employees and clients and all sorts of people that you have to answer to. So, yeah, being able to put a plan in place is very important.

11:21 Kathryn Baker

I would agree.

11:23 Maxwell Baker

How about you, Maria, what’s a business challenge that you faced and how did you overcome it?

11:29 Maria Horton

Probably trying to maintain the organization that I have to maintain. I belonging and being so active in this industry. I am part of so many different associations and really trying to make a difference in these associations, because just being a member or just being on the board doesn’t cut it. You know, you really want to make a difference. You really want to know, what is it that’s going to really affect change? So, it’s a big challenge that I face every day, because I am still, you know, I’m still, I’m very involved with so many different organizations that I sometimes think, okay, as a matter of fact, I was at the doctors yesterday, and they go, Maria, do you know how to say no? I said, no. (laughs) I don’t know how to say no, no, I do but, it’s just, you know, I’m so busy and so involved, not only with the industry, but, you know, I try to make a difference outside of the industry as well but, I think that with my own company, it’s been a male, male dominated company. So, just in doing so and doing this here, you know, I’ve made inroads, but, you know, I still want to keep going and do as much as I can to really overcome what has been the traditional women can do this, and we’re put into certain boxes (laughs). This is what you’re going to do, you know but, I have a lot of lot of different hats that I wear here. So, I’m trying to make sure that I’m successful at all of them.

13:13 Maxwell Baker

Kathryn, I know you said, not necessarily women, but like, this is what this show is about. Like, I want to hear what women overcome and challenges and like that makes me feel warm and fuzzy to hear like when you rise to the occasion, and it’s because of; like Maria said, You were put in a box and you and you’re not in that box, you burst out of that box and you created your own profile. So that’s, that’s really what I was hoping to get out of that kind of;

13:39 Kathryn Baker

Well, I have to relate with what Justine said, it’s that imposter syndrome that kind of can come up. I had to get over the idea that I was supposed to have all the answers. Once I got over that and started really being able to utilize this amazing team that we’ve built and that we have the privilege of working with, that’s when the doors really started opening career wise, was understanding that I didn’t have to have it all figured out, and that I was there to work with the talent that we have and to bring it out of them and to empower them. That’s when I feel like our entire business really started clicking.

14:18 Maxwell Baker

Yeah

14:19 Kathryn Baker

That was a big thing!

14:21 Justine Natalie

That’s a great point. I totally agree with you, because I feel like I don’t need to know everything. That’s why I hire the people that I do, because they’re experts in their domain, and I need to make sure that they will feel empowered to be those experts, and that, you know, we can kind of look at things maybe from a bigger perspective, but I love the fact that I have people on my team that are smarter than me in certain ways, because I can call them and I can say, hey, you know, talk to me more about this. How have you dealt with this in the past? What do you think about, you know, this kind of situation, and our team is so great about sharing knowledge. Just helping one another, but, yeah, it took a while to kind of get to the point of like, oh, I don’t need to know everything. I just need to know how to get it out of the people that we have that are around us, that are so awesome.

15:12 Kathryn Baker

You know that freedom to fail mindset, right? Like giving them the freedom to fail, also giving yourself that freedom. It was Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx. I saw this video with her, and she had she said that her dad would ask her, like, every day, what did you fail at today? That was like a normal conversation around their dinner table, is, what’d you fail at today? and she said it got so much to the point that she would come home excited and like, Dad, Dad, you’re never gonna get never gonna guess what I failed at today. I failed so bad, and he would high-five her, and it was like an exciting thing and I remember watching that deal, I was like, that is what made her a billionaire. That is that mindset.

15:55 Justine Natalie & Maria Horton

That’s great!

15:56 Maxwell Baker 

The next question I have here is, what kind of advice can you give to women that are just starting out as community owners and are trying to buy a deal on their own? We do have a friend of ours that is in those shoes, and she’s doing really well but, you know, there’s just not too many, too much, really information on how to navigate the platform of something that’s pretty male dominated and really how to navigate like communication styles and stuff like that. So, it’d be great to just kind of open up that pandora’s box to see how y’all navigated that and what it is to overcome some of those glass ceilings that you know most industries have, that have been around for 50 plus years and I’d love to hear you all’s feedback on that.

16:49 Justine Natalie

First, I would say to any woman who is coming in and trying to purchase a community, especially for the first time, they should join Women Advancing Manufactured Housing (WAMH) (laughs) so that they can have a network of people to discuss; nice little plug there. Thanks for that. But no, I mean, seriously, we created WAMH specifically so that there would be a network for people who are brand new to come in and be like, hey does anyone know about, you know, putting together this type of document? Does anyone have a lender that they recommend? Does anyone have titling information that they can share? So, definitely go on LinkedIn and find our group and start to network with the folks in there.

17:30

Secondly, outside of that, I would say, for me, getting into the industry on this side; so, I worked with operators previously, like I worked at, you know, larger operators, but now being a business owner and having to be a part of the conversation and like, make deals with people and things like that. I mean, one of the biggest parts is just like making yourself known, making yourself heard, and no one is going to advocate for you. You have to advocate for yourself, especially as a female like there are many, many wonderful male mentors out there that have helped all of us probably get to where we are today. I know I definitely have them, but they can’t do it all for us, and we have to show up at the table. We have to talk. We have to interject when we have something to say, we can’t just sit there quietly, you know? and so I would say, just don’t be quiet (laughs). Be loud. Ask questions, you know?

18:30 Maria Horton

(laughs)

18:31 Justine Natalie

(laughs) I’m just people that you can talk to.

18:34 Kathryn Baker

Great advice!

18:35 Maxwell Baker

Yeah, and I didn’t mean to say that there is a glass ceiling. I mean, is there really even a glass ceiling for women? Like, is there not one? Like, I mean, that’s;

18:45 Justine Natalie

I think there is but it’s, like, very subtle, in my opinion. So, there’s things that, like, Yeah, I’m a woman. I want to go buy a community, can I sure? Like, there’s not necessarily a glass ceiling that says I can’t do that. It’s the little subtleties that you run into as a female of walking up with me and my business partner and having everyone direct their attention to him and talk to him rather than talk to me. It’s just part of it, you know. So, if you don’t like I said, if you don’t make noise, if you don’t talk and, like, interject and say what you want to say, and ask the questions you want to say, they’re going to turn and speak to the man like it’s I hate it. I don’t I don’t love it. It’s not great but, that’s just the way it is. Luckily, I have an awesome partner who then turns back to me and says, well, Justine actually knows the answer to that, so let me bring her back into the conversation. So, I have a great partner in that, but not everybody does. So, I would say, yes, there’s a glass ceiling, but it’s subtle. It’s not like; and I don’t know that’s just my opinion, Maria would be curious to hear what you think?

19:57 Maria Horton

I can understand your point and how you interpret that, but I think that there really isn’t a ceiling any longer for women to get in this industry, if they are strong businesswoman that are ready to jump in and be assertive and get to know everyone. There are some, there are several out there now that are doing this and you know, many people have really obtained their parks through their families. They now are the leaders, you know, whether the brothers or the fathers passed on it. So now, now it’s the women that are taking over the communities and the management. So no, I think that we are, we are hoping that they are also respected and able to function as men do so easily with each other but, it’s a good old boys network that you have to break. I don’t have any problem, because I just managed to get my foot in the door, everywhere I’m so well-known now that it’s not a matter of trying to do that. I really, you know, I’m a part owner of parks as well, and I take an interest in what I’m doing with what’s happening in the parks, and so I don’t see it as really a glass ceiling. I think it’s coming down. I really think that it’s changing, and I’m hoping that it’s changing, because there are so many powerful women now out in our industry that are just, you know, coming up, doing every aspect of the jobs that you know, there’s no stopping them.

21:40

I really think that we will see a lot of women owners and operators sell communities and certainly like Justine strong business woman, like she is, you know, you are really making headway and you are, you’re so incredible. You are a little on the quieter side. You don’t have to You’re not like me out there (laughs) you know, running up to everybody and saying, “Hi, welcome. Oh, it’s so nice to;” you know how I am but with your beautiful smile and your business sense and your head; your head on your shoulders, you can go very far, you’re so very young, and can do wondrous things, you know. So, it’s, it’s exciting to watch, to see.

22:22 Justine Natalie

Thank you, that’s very sweet!

22:24 Maria Horton

Kathryn, you are amazing. You are going to be amazing, really, you know, running this operation that Max, and you have, it’s phenomenal. It really is but you know, you’re on the quieter side. We don’t see you too much. You know, you too much we’ve seen Max. Max’s space is always out there (laughs). We’ve seen max for years but Kathryn, you’re, you know, you’re amazing too. So, I’m just excited to be part of this. Really is exciting to be in the midst of change.

22:56 Kathryn Baker

Well, thank you for that. Max loves the spotlight, and I love the background, so it’s okay with me. What I find is people always eventually see you when you do good work, and that’s kind of the thing that’s in the back of my head. I do agree that it is our responsibility to make sure that they understand how your work is connecting to theirs, right? So, we can’t just stay quiet, as you both were saying, and I have seen and met so many women in this industry, as Maria was saying, that are doing all different kinds of jobs that I really, I don’t see it as a ceiling. I just see it as maybe you have to work a little bit harder to be seen, right or to be heard, that you have to be more intentional with it. You have to, in some cases, be better than some. That’s kind of the way that I look at it. You have to try a little harder but, I don’t see a barrier anymore. I don’t see anything that’s stopping a woman from being able to succeed in this industry.

23:56 Maxwell Baker

I will say to y’all like Kathryn is the reason why our company is the size it is because if she weren’t in the picture, it would just be Max a solo broker with maybe one assistant and that says she runs Team India. We have a whole staff in India. There’s about a, I think they’re almost to a dozen people that work with us over there. She runs all of that. She also runs all of the marketing and manages that and make sure that’s taken care of, manages all of my crazy research ideas. I literally just come up with an idea, and we talk about it one week, and then the next week it’s already in place, and I’m like, oh, I literally just thought of that, and you put it together. So, thank you so much for making me look like a rock star (laughs)

24:43 Justine Natalie

(laughs) It wasn’t so crazy, was it?

24:45 Maxwell Baker

I’ll give her kudos for, you know, stabilizing and really talking me off the ledge when it comes to managing people like that’s I always say, like women are way more about are way better at managing and operating with people than me. My patience for management is not as much as hers is, like she’ll talk me off the ledge multiple times. So, I am very grateful that she is my partner in crime here, because, simply because it’s like, wouldn’t be MHP Broker without her. So, want to give you a big kudos.

25:18 Kathryn Baker

Well, thank you for that!

25:20 Maxwell Baker

Alright? So next question, industry lessons? What are some of the most important lessons you’ve learned about the manufactured housing industry? I say there’s not enough women entrepreneurs. It’s majority men, and I’m always pushing for more because, like I said, women are way better operators than men are. I’ll say that over until I’m dead into the ground.

25:43 Kathryn Baker

A lot of people will be calling you later (laughs)

25:45 Maxwell Baker

I know everybody will be like what are you talking about? I’m a great operator. I’m like, I’m going off based of what I’ve seen in the marketplace y’all (laughs).

25:53 Maria Horton

It’s mostly male dominated, and so you have to have patience as a woman walking into this. I’ve done this for 23 years now. So, I mean, I started off just, you know, just coming in, not knowing anything about the industry, and then now knowing so many people and knowing so much about it that but never enough. Always, there’s always something to learn. There’s always things changing. So, so you really have to have the patience to realize that; the realization that things are going to change all the time. So having patience with the fact that change, it’s here. We’re tested all the time. I mean, bosses walk in and just so, you know, what about this? What do you think about that stuff? Okay, let’s slow down. Let’s take it from the top and see what the situation is, and just, you know, it’s good.

26:44 Justine Natalie

I think, some lessons that I’ve learned of the industry, it is evolving. One of the coolest parts about our industry is that it evolves with what’s happening at the time, right? So, if we’re in a lower economic downtrend, our operators have the ability to say, you know what, let’s offer rentals instead of homeownership and then when things kind of shift around, you know, we’re seeing interest rates drop all of a sudden, it’s like, okay, we can start to drive home ownership a little bit more and really provide that dream of owning a home in America. So, if our operators, men or women, are willing to open up their mind on their business model and allow for that, that evolution to happen. You can tell the ones who have done it because they’re still around and they haven’t, you know, sold off all of their stuff and; or whatever the case is. You know, those that have a hard time, that are kind of rigid, and what they what they want to do with their business plan, might have a harder time when the economy changes and when different things happen.

27:50

So, I feel like that’s definitely a lesson, like to just be more, to be open to what’s going to come for me, like in our business, you know, like I said, we started thinking that we were going to be helping people with navigating chattel finance for the end buyer. So, anyone who was going to purchase a home at their community, we were going to help them navigate what that looks like. Then it very clearly became like, well, people need to have their operations more in order for us to help them sell the homes that are on the ground. So, we can’t just help sell. We have to help with operations. We have to help with some of these back-office things that they don’t have in place yet so we are comfortable. We’ve only been around three years, and we’ve evolved dramatically since the way we started. So, I think one of my main lessons is just, you know, knowing, and goes back to what Maria was saying. It’s ever changing. So, we have to be open to that and be able to change with it, and evolve and change our mindset, and not always be stuck in the same old, you know, rhythm that we’ve been in.

28:57 Maria Horton

I think we’re blessed as women to be very flexible, to be much more flexible in situations and I think that is a gift that women do have (laughs). So, it makes life a little easier to handle when you know they’re used to juggling we’re used to really, we need to get to that part where we’re juggling families, family life and social life and operating communities and work life and this and that, so that it’s a blessing.

29:25 Justine Natalie

Kathryn, what have you learned?

29:27 Kathryn Baker

Oh, it comes with a lot of struggles, right? The perception, that’s something that everywhere you go, everyone’s harping on, is the perception. I think it’s amazing what I’m hearing people do to in order to change that. I think that it is a fantastic solution for affordable housing, and it surprises me that it doesn’t get more attention. So, I’m always paying attention to who’s really making headways with doing that right. What else have I learned in this industry? I have learned that the homes are absolutely gorgeous. It’s amazing doing these days even, yeah, my mom walked into one she came to a show, and way back when we were first starting out, she was helping Max with his booth and when she went in there, she was just like, wow! I had no idea they were so nice. The countertops, the floors everything. So, I think it’s…

30:22 Maxwell Baker

You’d be surprised!

30:23 Kathryn Baker

Very eye opening!

30:25 Maxwell Baker

Well, I’ve got two more questions, and then we can wrap up with WAMH. First question is, who is your biggest role model?

30:33 Maria Horton

There are so many women that have been fantastic. I mean, really, achievers, gosh. I mean, I think about, I think about Leslie Gooch, I think about Paula Reeves. I think about just so many different women that have really achieved greatness in this industry, whether they’re bank owners or, you know, or head of associations. I mean, there are so many that it would be so difficult to not name everyone. I just look up all of them that have really done great things and you know what? The Community operators, the managers, the managers who sit daily, every day, talking to the residents and collecting rents and doing a job that perhaps, you know, they don’t get the recognition for being such a, you know, such doing such great work but they do great work for us. They keep those communities operated. They do a lot of things and there are so, you know, they’re at every, every turn. There’s something, there’s someone there that has done great things. Justine. Justine is doing great things and here they are and it’s, it’s been fun. It’s been fun to watch. There are so many women that I’ve known in this industry for so long!

31:48 Maria Horton

I was gonna say, I mean, Maria’s got to be one of the great mentors of the MH industry. You can’t, deny that she’s, she’s a connector, and she brings people together. Um, one person who I’ve known for a long time in the industry, very quiet, I think, in the industry, but man, she’s made a huge impact, is Dana Freyman. She’s with Triad Financial Services, and just the amount of work she’s done to provide, you know, lending options for home ownership for people living in Manufactured Housing Communities and things like that. Her and her team have done a phenomenal job and I’ve always loved working with her man. I would say, any of the, any of the females that are on, you know, our WAMH committee are great, Sherry, Kim, Marjorie, Celeste, we’ve got just some, great folks that are, you know, trying to be just positive voices in the industry, and Kathryn have to give you a call out miss as you’ve been even wonderful. You know, what’s funny is that my, uh, my partner, has been like, we gotta meet with Kathryn, we gotta meet with Kathryn. So, I’m like, I actually have it in my in my inbox right now to, like, follow up with, I think, your assistant or somebody to get a meeting on the calendar so you’re wanted (laughs). You know, the people are looking to speak with you…

33:10 Kathryn Baker

(laughs) to kind of pull me from the background, huh?

33:15 Justine Natalie

(laughs) …but yeah, we’ve got some great; I mean, Leslie and Paula, those two also, we’ve, had speak with us for WAMH, and they’ve been wonderful, somebody just kind of outside the industry, but I think has a really, she’s more like women in tech, but her name is Dr Vrnda Boykin, and she has this; her statement is like, fix your face. It’s like what every woman like hears like, fix your face and smile or something like that is her little like catch phrase. But she just has a great conversation that she has with women about juggling work-life, balance, trying to she’s like, how about instead of feeling like you have to go change loads of laundry in between your meetings, you actually prep for your meeting ahead of time, so that you feel more prepared for your meeting and I was like, brilliant. You know, we thought we were being so brilliant by doing laundry and it’s like, no, we should prepare. So anyway, yeah, she’s outside of the industry but, you know, worth a worth a mention.

34:17 Maxwell Baker

How about you?

34:18 Kathryn Baker

Outside the; I’m gonna go outside the industry. One woman that comes to mind is Brené Brown when it comes to her communication style. I absolutely, I think that she is phenomenal and definitely a role model that I look to on how to better communicate. I’ve learned a lot from her and Sarah Blakely is on the mind today. I just really admire what she built and what she has accomplished on her own. I think that that is and her tenacity for how she did it. She’s definitely a role model that I look to.

34:53 Maxwell Baker

Nice. Last, but not least, what are some of the trends or developments that you think will shape the future of our industry for women?

35:03 Justine Natalie

Well, I think the fact that there’s more women getting into actually purchasing and operating communities, I think that is going to change things quite a bit, if you just think about the difference between, you know, men and women and how they operate. I think women will continue to have the thought process of advancing the industry forward, making sure it’s clean, safe, affordable housing for families and things like that. Obviously, men think like that too, but I think there’s just going to be kind of like this new, refreshed view on how to potentially get there with more women in those leadership roles. So, I definitely see that as something that’s going to be trending as we go into the future. The other thing I’d love to see in that I think the whole industry is working on, not just women, is just trying to get more affordable housing out there for Americans, which is, which is so, so, so important. You know, we have a great product. We have great option for people, and we just need to keep talking about it. We need to get it out there. We need to get the word out so that they know, like, ‘Hey, you’re a first time home buyer’ you’re brand new married couple looking to have a baby. We’ve got a beautiful three bedroom, two bath home that you can start your life in you know, and make that like let’s focus on first time homebuyers. Let’s focus on getting those It doesn’t always have to be second chance or people that are, you know, are down in the don’t struggling. We can make this an industry that is for way more people than they think it’s for, you know, so I’d love to see that!

36:44 Maria Horton

I agree with Justine that we are making progress in getting the word out, but not enough. We need to get the houses that we offer to everyone advertised out there for everyone to see, because it’s such; it’s the American dream home ownership. You know, we are, we are offering everyone that opportunity and something that they can afford because, you know, in our economic times, obviously it’s, it’s not so easy for everyone to afford a home and we’re trying hard to achieve that dream, and women can do anything now. Women are being welcomed as executives in the major manufacturers, in the major companies out there, in any kind of position. So, I was speaking to Bill Boor of Cavco, who also told me that he has, you know, his women, his executives, are women, and he wants, he wants them involved in WAMH and he wants to get them, he wants us to know that he has women that are really making progress in this industry and, you know, it’s interesting because, you know, for so long, like I said, it’s been just a male, male dominated industry, and it still is, pretty much for the most part but, it’s nice to see the women that are coming into executive positions and making a difference and offering what they have to offer as to ideas on how to achieve that homeownership and selling those homes and running our communities as we do, and making them beautiful communities for people that they will want to live in our communities.

38:30 Kathryn Baker

See for trends, I’m going to talk about kind of what stands out and it’s been how people are creating communities and what they’re doing to bring the people together within their communities and I actually learned some great things from SECO (South East Community Owners) when I sat in on one of their seminars. It was back when we were all virtual, and I just one of the gentlemen was talking about how he got on the phone and he just started calling around to different doctors in the areas to see if they could come out and do some annual exams, like we’re talking eye doctors or ear doctors to come out and do exams and he was saying it was amazing if you just picked up the phone and asked what people would come out and do, what they would volunteer to do. He said another person had a firefighter to bring the truck out, and they, like, ran a whole, how to get out of the house, and did everything with the kids in the community, which, of course, the kids had a great time doing, but they also learned from it. So, I think that those trends are very intriguing to me, and that’s what I’m always kind of listening out to, is how to do more for the people that are living in these communities.

39:47 Maxwell Baker

Yeah, I love that! All right, so we’re gonna wrap up and talk a little bit about WAMH. First off, tell me what WAMH, the acronym from WAMH is.

39:54 Justine Natalie

WAMH stands for Women Advancing Manufactured Housing. So, it is a group led by women, but for everyone. So, it is not only for females, it is for everyone. It is just led by women.

40:09 Maxwell Baker

Awesome!

40:09 Maria Horton

We’re not exclusive…

40:10 Kathryn Baker & Maxwell Baker

I love that!

40:11 Maria Horton

(laughs) …because everyone has something to offer us. We don’t want to exclude men who have so much experience and so much to offer women as to what they bring to it as well.

40:23 Maxwell Baker

Awesome! and then, how many members do y’all have right now?

40:27 Justine Natalie

Yeah, 390 is what we’ve got like right at the moment but, yeah, so we’re pushing 400 and which is awesome. You know, it’s great to see the growth. I think we I remember when we hit, like, 100 we were like yaay! (laughs)

40:46 Maria Horton

(laughs) What we try to do, we really try to offer them opportunities to advance themselves, whether it’s through offering classes that they can enroll by applying for; little something that they can use for their jobs and so we don’t want to be just, you know, a group that gets together and talks a lot. We also want to offer something as well for those who are in need of a class, or they want to take a salesperson class, or want to, you know, want to better themselves in another aspect of the industry. So, we hope that, you know, they fill out applications to get, you know, to win something like that.

41:26 Maxwell Baker

Awesome! Last couple questions. What are some of the topics that members can look forward to hearing you cover over the next 12 months?

41:35 Justine Natalie

Yeah, so we don’t have, like, the 12-month calendar scheduled out quite yet. But what I will say is that over the last 12 months, we’ve had some amazing speakers talk through our group, automation technology was a part that we just went over not too long ago. That was a great conversation, you know, talking about the trends, like you said, really trying to figure out how we can get more inventory out there into the world so that people have more options for affordable housing. We definitely like to make sure we get updates from like Leslie Gooch with MHI (Manufactured Housing Institute), so that she, you know, she’ll kind of do kind of a state of the time, union; state of the manufactured housing industry and give us kind of some updates as to what’s happening within the industry, what they’re working on, all that kind of stuff. You know, other things that are even more specific, we’ve gone through and done topics on insurance, you know? So, if you are a new community owner or looking to purchase your new community, what does it look like to make sure that home or that community is insured? Do you know, what are the resources that you have out there? So, the other one is like, pet screening. We have Veronica from pet screening join us one time. So we’ve gone through that. She talked about, like, you know, the importance of making sure that you’re documenting all the pets that are in your communities and how they can help with that. So there’s a lot of different topics that we like to go over.

43:05 Maxwell Baker

Awesome!

43:06 Maria Horton

I would love to add that we also encourage everyone to; we give them a list of all the upcoming conferences. So that they can attend, or they can plan to attend, you know, and learn from everyone in the industry and make the contacts there as well, because there are seminars. There are so many things that are offered at these conferences that they can certainly enrich their careers of that way as well, and make the contacts with others in the you know; and perhaps another aspect of the industry that they want to dive into.

43:42 Justine Natalie

The other thing that we like to do, you know, celebrate anybody, like, celebrate any kind of awards or anything that we’re seeing out there. So, if there’s a female in our industry that’s getting recognized, we want to highlight that and make sure people know that it’s happening and that there’s recognition out there in our industry.

43:59 Maxwell Baker

I love that. Yeah. Well, y’all, we’re grateful that you joined us, and thank you for answering all these questions again, like Kathryn did all this. She put all this together.

44:12 Justin Natalie

Great job, Kathryn!

44:13 Maria Horton

Yes. Thank you so much!

44:17 Maxwell Baker

She was plopped on yesterday from my assistant, like, what are we talking about, Kathryn? What are the questions? She put it together within 24 hours. She’s like, don’t ever put me in this position again. I was like, I’m sorry (laughs).

44:32 Kathryn Baker

We rise to the occasion!

44:33 Maxwell Baker

Totally, she killed it! She killed it!

44:37 Kathryn Baker

But I just think you both are absolute trailblazers and just so grateful for the opportunity to get to talk with you and be able to ask you some questions and learn more about your careers and how you got to where you are now and where you’re going.

44:50 Justine Natalie

Thank you so much. We appreciate being on here!

44:52 Maria Horton

Thank you!

44:53 Kathryn Baker

Is there anything else that y’all want to want to add or want to pitch?

44:59 Maria Horton

Congratulations to all the women who have just made great strides. You know, it’s really amazing to see what women have been able to accomplish and you just have to be so proud what they have done. They making strides.

45:15 Maxwell Baker

Yes, amen to that!

45:17 Justine Natalie

I would just say, you know, if you are listening to this and you are not a member of WAMH, go ahead and jump on to LinkedIn and follow us on Women Advancing Manufactured Housing. You can search us up and follow us there and then you can also ask to join our members group on LinkedIn as well, and we will gladly accept you and bring you into the mix and give you a great network of people to work with and talk to. You know, anytime you need.

45:48 Maxwell Baker

Awesome, alright y’all thanks for listening. We are grateful to have the ladies here lead and take charge of this podcast. Thank you to my wife, Kathryn, for putting it together and thank you to Maria and Justine for joining us and giving us some insight on the industry for women within the manufactured housing industry. So, thank you all very much! If you all have any questions or any feedback about this episode, please give us a call here at the office at (678) 932-0200, or email us at info@themhpbroker.com thanks for listening, and let’s keep moving forward!